Starcraft 2 Armory - Unofficial Starcraft 2 Fansite

Alright so im typing this for a second time cause my damn computer shut down. Anyway, Ive been watching Starcraft 2's progress and am very pleased with how the game is turning out so far, blizzard is doing a fantastic job with graphics, game play, maps, units etc and I for one cannot wait to play this awesome game when it comes out. I am however bugged by a few things.

As everyone knows, Terrans advance very quickly, they can lay down a factory as soon as they finish their first barracks. Other races must make a Cyb core / Lair to reach the equiv tech. This allows the Terrans to quickly produce what I think is one of their deadliest units for cost, the Hellion. The Hellion is a small very fast car that can outrun most any threat, it deals considerable damage (10 + 5 to light) Plus splash damage, and is very cheap (100 minerals). My problem with this unit is that is has no real counters early game. By the time Terrans make this unit and press an attack Protoss and Zerg have nothing to stop it, Stalkers are too slow, Zerglings, Zealots, and Hydras are just steamrolled due to bonus damage to light units. So I think that Hellions should be given one of the following disadvantages to balance them out.

-Increase cost to 100 minerals and 25-50 gas
-Reduce speed so enemy units can hope to catch them
-Remove splash damage effect

In addition to the hellion, the Terrans have one more early unit that I think could be tweaked a little. Yes you guessed it, the Marauder.

The Marauder Deals 12 damage + 12 to armored units. It has 125 health which is MASSIVE for early Terran infantry, especially for its low cost of 100 minerals and 25 gas, Hardly more than a Hydralisk. The marauder has 6 range, 7 while bunkered, and 1 armor. In addition the marauder has a slow effect on its attack, and can Stim to become an unstoppable siege unit. I think that Maruaders should be given one of the following debuffs to balance them out.

-Reduce health to about 100
-Increase cost by either 25 minerals or 25 gas
-Remove the stun grenade effect
-Decrease damage to about 10 + 8 to armored. Or something along those lines.

In addition to one of those nerfs I think stim needs to be changed, (I know blizzard is already working on it but here is my suggestion.

Right now stim increases attack and movement speed and removes 10 health, my problem with this is that 10 health is NOTHING for a marauder whereas its 25% of a marines hit points for the same effect. So I think Stim should be changed to rather than removing 10 health, removes 25% of the units health. It would balance the Debuff between all Terran infantry.


I think Banelings should have a small cost reduction as they are the price of a hydralisk right now. Maybe reduce it to 25 gas or 50 minerals, instead of both.

I think Roaches Need to be given their above-ground regen back. Its what made them unique and usefull, they had to be focus fired.

Overseers are a bit overpriced in my opinion, In Starcraft 1 the Zerg could get a detector for 100 minerals, now they cost 150 minerals and 100 gas, I think a fairer price would be somewhere around 50 gas, plus the overlords price.

Infestors Nothing to say except I really hope they get a 3d abilty like devouring plague since right now all they have is spawn terrans and Mind control.

Sentry Hopefully a 3d ability and maaaybe a name change

Immortal In the games current build not many units are left that deal over 10 damage in a single attack. Most units deal (Damage X Damage) Which renders the Immortals shield useless. Perhaps the shield should Reduce all damage 8 and above instead of 10.


Well these are just my thoughts at least. Rage away.

Thank you for comparing Maruader and Hydralisk.
Although they have similar cost, Maruader has 50 more HP, stim, slow grenade,
and +12 damage to armored. Hydralisks only have +4 bonus to armored.
Given what we know so far, Marauder needs to be nerfed.

Yes... Overseers are too expensive for now....

Yeah, the only thing hydras really have on the marauder is its ability to attack air. But the Marauder is just way too strong in my opinion for such a early game ground unit. It has the strength of a protoss unit (More even as the stalker doesnt do half the damage the marauder does) For the cost of a Zerg unit.

Hellion: While the terran is fast teching to hellions what are you doing? If you let anyone tech above you, you're gonna have a very hard time. Giving the hellion a gas cost will kill it. It is completely out-classed past tier 2. The splash is not a true splash; it is only line splash. You'll be lucky to hit more than 2 units with it, especially if they have a surround. None-the-less, I do believe that hellions should have a lower base speed, and that there should be an upgrade to put them back at the speed demons they are right now. That way, earlier units can hope to defeat hellions.

Marauder: Ok there have been a BILLION different topics on this. I will not mention anything on this topic, and hope that everyone else won't either. If you want to debate the marauder, go to one of the "Marauder is OP" threads.

Banelings: I don't know what to say about this unit. I haven't seen enough of it to really say anything, so I won't.

Roaches: Blizz doesn't want z v z roach fests. Taking out above-ground regen is one way to lessen the appeal of roaches (now you have to micro them). Maybe introduce an upgrade to give them back above-ground regen?

Overseer: The overseer in its present form is over-priced. Either lower the cost (like OP said) or give it an useful ability.

Infestors: I'm already scared of neural parasite. I don't think that the infestor needs another ability, and I don't think any other ability will be able to take priority over the neural/spawn infested marines combo unless it is OP.

Sentry: For such an early caster, force field is a very good spell that can be used even in late-game. Name change? Why not .

Immortals: I think the only units that do damage way over 10 are archons, siege tanks, colossi and ultralisks. However, the immortal does have a beastly attack (20, +20 vs armored) which I think justifies it. And, you can't make the immortal shield activation lower then 10 because that would effectively make the immortal a hard counter to every single terran ground unit.

I also loved how you compared the marauder to the hydralisk. It is definitely too strong for its tier. "Oh the zerg are supposed to mass their units to be strong!" well guess what they can't mass any better of the cost is the fking same. Albeit the marauder is easier to counter. What I think is...

Reduce marauder + damage to 8 and remove stim
Add a +25 gas to hellion cost
Decrease baneling mineral cost to 25
Make overseers just cost 50/50
Totally agree on the roaches
Name change for the Sentry
Allow the infestor's neural parasite to work on everything save the mothership (how about ground only?)
And with the immortal it needs to be moved back down to tier 2 but not allow it to warp in. Problem SOLVED.

Quote by Warchamp

As everyone knows, Terrans advance very quickly, they can lay down a factory as soon as they finish their first barracks. Other races must make a Cyb core / Lair to reach the equiv tech. This allows the Terrans to quickly produce what I think is one of their deadliest units for cost, the Hellion. The Hellion is a small very fast car that can outrun most any threat, it deals considerable damage (10 + 5 to light) Plus splash damage, and is very cheap (100 minerals). My problem with this unit is that is has no real counters early game. By the time Terrans make this unit and press an attack Protoss and Zerg have nothing to stop it, Stalkers are too slow, Zerglings, Zealots, and Hydras are just steamrolled due to bonus damage to light units. So I think that Hellions should be given one of the following disadvantages to balance them out.

-Increase cost to 100 minerals and 25-50 gas
-Reduce speed so enemy units can hope to catch them
-Remove splash damage effect

In addition to the hellion, the Terrans have one more early unit that I think could be tweaked a little. Yes you guessed it, the Marauder.

The Marauder Deals 12 damage + 12 to armored units. It has 125 health which is MASSIVE for early Terran infantry, especially for its low cost of 100 minerals and 25 gas, Hardly more than a Hydralisk. The marauder has 6 range, 7 while bunkered, and 1 armor. In addition the marauder has a slow effect on its attack, and can Stim to become an unstoppable siege unit. I think that Maruaders should be given one of the following debuffs to balance them out.

-Reduce health to about 100
-Increase cost by either 25 minerals or 25 gas
-Remove the stun grenade effect
-Decrease damage to about 10 + 8 to armored. Or something along those lines.

In addition to one of those nerfs I think stim needs to be changed, (I know blizzard is already working on it but here is my suggestion.

Right now stim increases attack and movement speed and removes 10 health, my problem with this is that 10 health is NOTHING for a marauder whereas its 25% of a marines hit points for the same effect. So I think Stim should be changed to rather than removing 10 health, removes 25% of the units health. It would balance the Debuff between all Terran infantry.


I think Banelings should have a small cost reduction as they are the price of a hydralisk right now. Maybe reduce it to 25 gas or 50 minerals, instead of both.

I think Roaches Need to be given their above-ground regen back. Its what made them unique and usefull, they had to be focus fired.

Overseers are a bit overpriced in my opinion, In Starcraft 1 the Zerg could get a detector for 100 minerals, now they cost 150 minerals and 100 gas, I think a fairer price would be somewhere around 50 gas, plus the overlords price.

Infestors Nothing to say except I really hope they get a 3d abilty like devouring plague since right now all they have is spawn terrans and Mind control.

Sentry Hopefully a 3d ability and maaaybe a name change

Immortal In the games current build not many units are left that deal over 10 damage in a single attack. Most units deal (Damage X Damage) Which renders the Immortals shield useless. Perhaps the shield should Reduce all damage 8 and above instead of 10.


Well these are just my thoughts at least. Rage away.

Zerg have nothing to counter Hellion??? How about Hydralisks that do 12 damage to hellions it roaches that have more hp and higher attack rate. Look Here for the slow ass attack rate of the hellion. around 4:00 the hellion is balanced.

marauders, first you forget that the attack is split into 2 and most armored units have at least 1 armor. there by making them 2 dmg weaker than you make them out to be. they Have 1 huge weakness that the Hydralisks and Stalkers do NOT have and that's they can't attack air, that makes all AtG units especially stronger against terran since they do not have their Goliaths anymore, so there are plenty of ways to beat them. Stim in BR4 is OP in general (it lasts 10 seconds c'mon) and Blizz is adjusting it.

The slow Effect only works on Armored units and in most cases it wouldn't matter. Stalkers can blink, colossi have a range advantage, Immortals just Kick ass, All zerg units can burrow and they are mostly light units anyway.

Banelings, well idc about them and honestly i don't find them much of a threat (unless in mineral line) they are useful in their own way and can be used better than zerglings if use right.

Roaches have the above ground regen as an upgrade if i'm not mistaken.

the Overseer has abilities the overlord doesn't and all mobile detectors have a gas price and 50 gas is less than an observer and no caster/detector should have a cost less than an observer. (note: is still provides supply if i'm not mistaken)

A 3d ability? or do you mean 3rd ability? anyway lets count them shall we: Move while borrowed, Neural Parasite, Spawn Infested Terrans. I count three as for Sentry it has an attack, it doesn't need third ability.

Immortals- Maraudes, Immortals, Tanks Upgraded Stalkers, Thors, Archons, Ultralisks, upgraded Zealots, Hydralisks, Upgraded Roaches, Upgraded BCs, Banshees, Lurkers, Vikings, and Colossi. Did I miss anything???

If anyone has played warcraft 3 the frozen throne I think you'll quickly realize that the maruader and the huntress have alot in common. Looking at it in pure stats the huntress looks WAY WAY WAAAAAAAY overpowered...I mean they are fast movement speed, tons of hp, bouncing attack, tier 1 unit...simply unstoppable whaaaaaa. Compared to every other race they are obviously the best tier one unit...but wait. Once you begin to play the game yeah, all the noobs are gonna get stomped by mass huntress rush, but once you begin to understand the game you'll realize that anyone who knows what they are doing can stop huntresses quite easily and they are NOT in fact...a godly overpowered unit. Maurader is fine. Learn to adapt.

I agree with the fact that the Factory needs to be put later in the tech tree. I think the Merc Compound should be the preliminary requirement for a Factory.

I think the Hellion is fine as is. It moves as fast as the Vulture, which is what it is replacing. It will be better if the Factory is moved up the tech tree.

I feel the the Marauder should lose the stim pack. Everything else about it is fine.

The Baneling's cost is fine, especially because of the damage it can do.

Roaches should NOT have fast above ground regen. With it, a Zerg player can just mass Roaches in the early game since they don't die easily. Fast burrowed regen is enough to keep a group of Roaches alive.

In SC1 you could not use cloaked units against the Zerg because of the sheer number of Overlords. Blizzard likely doesn't want to repeat that error, so they made detection harder for the Zerg to get. Now you can only morph a small handful of Overlords into overseers, making cloaked unit strategies more viable against Zerg. Also, Zerg now need to think about their detection like the other races do.

Infestors have Fungal Growth, which acts like Ensnare and briefly disables enemies after a period of time.

Sentry is fine as is, I would like to have the energy for Force Fields.

While there aren't too many units that do 10 or more damage, it is designed to handle the ones that do, such as the Siege Tank, Thor, Ultralisk, and Colossus. Not to mention that it murders most other armored units.

@Trojan_Soldier: Your idea for the hellion is actually really good, making it slower at first with a speed upgrade is brilliant hah, cant believe i didn't think of that. It would make the Hellion more balanced early game so it cant rush, but also increase its effectiveness later game if upgraded so that the zerg and protoss can actually counter it.

Your idea for upgrade to make roaches regen above ground isn't a bad one at all. Or perhaps a new mechanic all together? I just feel they need a little more than that health boost to make up for losing regen.

You are right, infestor parasite is a decent ability. Still its missing its direct damage ability the other races casters have.

Protoss: High templar: Psi storm, 120 damage over 4 secs in an area.

Terran: Raven: Seeker missile, 150 damage, plus splash.

Zerg: Infestor: well before they had devouring plague but it was removed, a replacement is still being thought up i suppose.

Notice how each race has a 200 gas caster that has no direct attack but have a area damage ability as well as 2 other support abilities (sentry gun, infested terrans, parasite, phase shift etc.) Although the infestor has its support ability, its still lacking its 3d area damage attack that its counterparts have.

I suppose your right for the sentry and Immortal.

Quote by Outlaw_Star

marauders, first you forget that the attack is split into 2 and most armored units have at least 1 armor. there by making them 2 dmg weaker than you make them out to be. they Have 1 huge weakness that the Hydralisks and Stalkers do NOT have and that's they can't attack air, that makes all AtG units especially stronger against terran since they do not have their Goliaths anymore, so there are plenty of ways to beat them. Stim in BR4 is OP in general (it lasts 10 seconds c'mon) and Blizz is adjusting it.

The slow Effect only works on Armored units and in most cases it wouldn't matter. Stalkers can blink, colossi have a range advantage, Immortals just Kick ass, All zerg units can burrow and they are mostly light units anyway.

1) Sc2 Pod says Maruaders have slows units on attack, but doesn't say
it is armored units only. Blizzard gave slowing attack to maruaders so that
they could counter melee units like zealots easily. This is one of reasons why
Maruaders replaced firebats.

2) Maruader have +12 damage bonus to armored.
Hydralisks have +4 damage bonus to armored.
Given that Hydralisk and Maruader has similar cost, this seems unfair.

3) Marauder have 6x2 attack, but it makes up the split damage with stim.
Thus it has better attack than Hydralisk's 8 damage.
Given that Hydralisk and Maruader has similar cost, this seems unfair.

4) Maruader have 125 HP.
Hydralisks have 75Hp.
Given that Hydralisk and Maruader has similar cost, this seems unfair.

5) Maruaders and Marines are often paired together, so it won't
be that easy to defeat Maruaders.

Marauders are easily counterable with zerglings and zealots, and BR1 shows kiting is useless. Stim is out of the tech tree, being tier 1.5, while terran wants to get to tier 2 as fast as possible. Colossi and brood lords kill them quicklier later on.

Banelings destroy marines clusters, as seen in numerous TvZ games, and are actually efficient.

Hellions don't usually do splash against ranged units, as it is line splash and it either hits from 4 range or dies trying to get the most out of its attack.

Roaches got 160hp instead of 80hp with 15+10 regen because ZvZ would be rather boring if that happened, as even air units would have trouble killing them, which is the only thing zerg has against them.

Infestor has that ensnare/maelstorm ability, and that is deadly with lurkers.

Overseers are spellcasters, just like ravens, as well as a supplier: ravens cost 100/200 while having only 140 hp, needs to be produced from starport with tech lab, unlike overseers, which can be made easily.

Immortal's HS is there to really discourage siege tank lines so that they stay in SC1. Their HS is a bonus, and its strength lies within its 20+20 attack and nice health overall.

Sentry is a crappy name. I agree on changing it.

I'm just going to stop trying to stop people from being stupid and saying that the game is imbalanced when the people that played it says it isn't.

Quote by Outlaw_Star

Zerg have nothing to counter Hellion??? How about Hydralisks that do 12 damage to hellions it roaches that have more hp and higher attack rate. Look Here for the slow ass attack rate of the hellion. around 4:00 the hellion is balanced.

marauders, first you forget that the attack is split into 2 and most armored units have at least 1 armor. there by making them 2 dmg weaker than you make them out to be. they Have 1 huge weakness that the Hydralisks and Stalkers do NOT have and that's they can't attack air, that makes all AtG units especially stronger against terran since they do not have their Goliaths anymore, so there are plenty of ways to beat them. Stim in BR4 is OP in general (it lasts 10 seconds c'mon) and Blizz is adjusting it.

The slow Effect only works on Armored units and in most cases it wouldn't matter. Stalkers can blink, colossi have a range advantage, Immortals just Kick ass, All zerg units can burrow and they are mostly light units anyway.

Banelings, well idc about them and honestly i don't find them much of a threat (unless in mineral line) they are useful in their own way and can be used better than zerglings if use right.

Roaches have the above ground regen as an upgrade if i'm not mistaken.

the Overseer has abilities the overlord doesn't and all mobile detectors have a gas price and 50 gas is less than an observer and no caster/detector should have a cost less than an observer. (note: is still provides supply if i'm not mistaken)

A 3d ability? or do you mean 3rd ability? anyway lets count them shall we: Move while borrowed, Neural Parasite, Spawn Infested Terrans. I count three as for Sentry it has an attack, it doesn't need third ability.

Immortals- Maraudes, Immortals, Tanks Upgraded Stalkers, Thors, Archons, Ultralisks, upgraded Zealots, Hydralisks, Upgraded Roaches, Upgraded BCs, Banshees, Lurkers, Vikings, and Colossi. Did I miss anything???

Actually Hydras only do 8 damage to hellions, Hellions arent armored AND hellions have a bonus against hydras, so hydras are terrible counter for hellion. Everything else you named is later tier, They gotta make a Lair and then roach warren all the while hellions are burning down your drones.

You are right about Marauders not attacking air but again air is much later tier, so that gives terrans a large advantage till the enemy can make a Lair/ Spire, or cyb core/ stargate.

Yes banelings can be used better than zerglings but cost 25 minerals and 50 gas more. thats the price of a hydra for a 1 time unit that deals only 15 damage to non light units.

Overseers cost 100 gas not 50. and they should be cheaper than an observer, they are earlier tier and arent perm stealthed. Also whoever compared the Raven to Overseer... no. Ravens are given a variety of offense abilties, the Overseer has what? Changeling? They are defenseless. Raven is in fact better compared to the infestor.

Moving while burrowed is hardly an ability, sure its a nice perk but its no diff from cloak. They need A area damage ability. And its true the sentry has 2 abilities plus an attack, so what? the ghost has nuke, cloak, snipe, emp, and an attack.

Hydralisks are easily countered by zerglings and zealots
if they are not too massed. That is same for Maruader.

Maruader and Hydralisks have similar cost. But
Maruader has 50 more HP than Hydralisk. That means that
it's easier to kill Hydralisk than Maruader even though
that have similar cost and build time.

Hellions also have upgrade that allows them to have
+10 damage to light. This means that they can have
25 damage to light units in beginning game...scary

Quote by Outlaw_Star

The slow Effect only works on Armored units and in most cases it wouldn't matter.

Actually I just got back from watching a G-Star video and in it I saw with my own eyes the marauders slow down a hydralisk to a snails pace. It was behind the pack going about the speed of an overlord.

Either way, zerglings zealots and marines can counter them. Air however cannot. Why Trib must you be a noob and not realize that marauders have no anti air? Well take a good look at the fact that wherever there are marauders there's about 2x in marines. It's like picking off super strong medics with mutalisks. Not gonna happen!

Protoss answers with colossi.

Terran answers with battlecruisers.

Zerg answers with lurkers and zerglings.