Starcraft 2 Armory - Unofficial Starcraft 2 Fansite

The corruptors cost 100/100, while phoenixes cost 125/75.

The reason why corruptors>phoenixes is because if it went the other way, zerg has no way to defeat protoss. Since phoenixes defeat vikings in 1 on 1 despite being cheaper, protoss has no reason to continue complaining.

@Shadowmage
Because protoss needs air superiority, and phoenixes are the means by which they are supposed to get it. If zerg have the option to simply take the air from 'toss, what is gonna punish mutas harass? Hunting overlords was a big bonus for the corsair which made it viable, but I strongly doubt they would have been used if not for the air superiority they established. Also note that with no critical mass, mutalisks may even counter the phoenix with numbers... The way you describe the situation is that phoenixes are faster and can therefore harass zerg easily, but a muta stack can be produced a lot faster than a bunch of phoenixes, and aren't at as big a disadvantage against them as corsairs. In combination with the zerg being able to win the fight on the arrival corruptors, as well as the existence of zerg towers and hydras, this sort of tactic seems quite easily answered.

This aside though, I actually really like the current phoenix. It isn't really a phoenix anymore with graviton beam, and it doesn't really do its job either, but if Blizzard renamed it and fixed the balancing I reckon the design is sort of elegant.

PS. Do you think maybe the removal of the 'meltdown' ability (I forget what its called) may have had something to do with zerg having access to mind control? cos that **** is hilarious :-)

Quote by steve42

to everyone doing the physics, you are all mostly right, at the very least you are all difficult to understand. The easiest way to explain the greater strain of lifting something 10 times more massive is that by moving it above the ground you increase the gravitational potential energy of the object lifted. the energy required to do so is equal to the mass of the object times gravitational acceleration times the distance moved:
E = mg(delta x)
so by increasing the mass on the right side by a factor of 10 you increase the amount of energy required to do so by a factor of ten, and the phoenix only has so much power(rate of energy conversion from one type to another).
The reason why something of greater mass falls at the same speed as something of a lesser mass is not that the mass difference is negligible, but rather that the Force increases at the same rate as the mass does and the acceleration is left constant. Proof:

m2 = earth's mass ; m1 = object's mass

F = ma ; F = G(m2*m1)/d^2

(G*m2*m1)*(1/d^2)= m1*a

G*m2*(d^-2) = a<---------- since G is constant, the planet's mass is constant, and the distance is the same each time, then the acceleration is constant.

Wow I hated Physics back in the day, Im a Biomedical Scientist by training. This explanation of why anti-gravity will not lift massive is the best i have seen yet. Although the simple idea from Blizzard is also a sound one. They want Anti-grav as a harass technique not one that removes Colossi/Thor/Ultralisks from the map. I always love reading about why things aren't possible through the laws of Physics, nice work!

Mista_sox:Its called the Overload ability.

the phoenix can kill a corruptor 1 on 1, but if its 12 v 12 then the corruptor wins.

the corruptor is just like all the other zerg units, average on their own but incredibly effective in numbers, this is why they are good against all air (as long as their in numbers)

Quote by mista_sox

@Shadowmage
Because protoss needs air superiority, and phoenixes are the means by which they are supposed to get it. If zerg have the option to simply take the air from 'toss, what is gonna punish mutas harass? Hunting overlords was a big bonus for the corsair which made it viable, but I strongly doubt they would have been used if not for the air superiority they established. Also note that with no critical mass, mutalisks may even counter the phoenix with numbers... The way you describe the situation is that phoenixes are faster and can therefore harass zerg easily, but a muta stack can be produced a lot faster than a bunch of phoenixes, and aren't at as big a disadvantage against them as corsairs. In combination with the zerg being able to win the fight on the arrival corruptors, as well as the existence of zerg towers and hydras, this sort of tactic seems quite easily answered.

Oh, undoubtedly. I actually believe the Zerg counter to the Phoenix is not the Corruptor but stacked Mutalisks since Corruptors are so slow that Phoenixes will not engage them unless they absolutely have to. Furthermore, I believe that Phoenixes will not be used to counter Mutalisks, but to scout, kill Overlords, and in general, buy time for Protoss to get a few HT/Archons (which should be faster now that Stargate precedes Templar Archives). Unlike in SC:BW, Zerg does not have scourge, so a Zerg player cannot simply make a few Scourge and then run all of his Mutalisks to a Protoss player's base. Rather, he must waste time using his Mutalisks to keep Phoenixes away from Overlords, which gives Protoss a significant time boost to prepare. Also, if a Protoss manages to keep his first few Phoenixes alive, then the option of going Phoenix/DT is open due to Zerg's detection nerf... or perhaps even before the Templar Archives if you have the jewels.

Yes, Hydralisks and Spore Crawlers will keep DTs away from a Zerg player's main, but DTs can deny expos and kill stray Zerg units while Phoenixes pick off the expensive Overseer. The Phoenix may not have splash, but they are good at killing individual units.

well said :-)

Pheonix really are amazing

I really hope that Blizzard would not take away the ability (I forgot what the name is)
The ability to attack in a wide range and then they go offline for a certain amount of time

Peace out..

Quote by Shadowmage

Given that the cost of a Corruptor is 150/100, I still don't think that it's really all that powerful relative to the Phoenix. Sure, the Phoenix has no critical mass, but that really doesn't invalidate my argument about the units mobility. In short, why would you try to kill Corruptors with Phoenix? You should run away from the Corruptor to some other place where an Overlord/seer is lurking, kill it, then run away as the Corruptor slowly floats to engage. The only place I see Corruptors being a problem is when a Zerg player does and Overlord drop and uses Corruptors to pick off the Phoenix defense, but quite frankly, Corruptors do a poor job protecting a large area which makes the Phonenix a solid Zerg harassment unit.

Perfectly put, the pheonix is a air vulture! It can attack whatever it wants because of its speed .

@Knee- I too agree with the scoutsair, I miss the old pheonix as well, but more than the overload ability, i wish it had ground attack, then it would be pretty good replacement for the scout and corsair, and I too would like to see the scourge back and see the corruptor buffed to a more expensive stronger unit, like the devo.

Problem with the phoenix kiting is that most air units outrange it so it can't kite without getting torn to shreds.

The pheonix is a sweet unit but unfortunatly i think loss of overload ended its sair like capability. Reason Z's didn't go for muta harass much vs P's is that sairs would splash all over them. now the mutas don't have to fear pheonix as much and can just kill it and continue harassing. P might have to depend on archons+psi storm for muta stopping if muta harassment still popular tactic.(not a bad alternitive considering archons do 70 dmg to mutas+splash)

Do archons still have splash? Do thor still have splash?