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ok i've got only 62 apm, i was expecting it to be about 70. the map is python, 1v1 game (i normally do 2v2s), my opponent had 97 apm and i'm trying to figure out how i won with such low stats compare to him. i'm not sure how amp works completely. if it is actions done times units selected divided by each minute then it might make more sense (he used his scvs to defend a few times).

i'm kinda proud of this game but feel free to criticize call me a noob or whatever, just be honest with me.

Just a side note, i want to have at least 100 apm on average before sc2 comes out.

It's apm. Stands for actions per minute. No clue how why you call it amp....

Anyways, I'll watch it tomorrow and tell you how good/bad you are. Also even if you're playing Protoss, 62 apm still doesn't cut it.

EDIT: Actually on second thought this game probably would not be indicative of any skill level at all cause bnet noobs don't know how to play SC. This was played on bnet am I correct? I don't see the game on iccup.

Quote by nbtnbt5

It's apm. Stands for actions per minute. No clue how why you call it amp....

Anyways, I'll watch it tomorrow and tell you how good/bad you are. Also even if you're playing Protoss, 62 apm still doesn't cut it.

EDIT: Actually on second thought this game probably would not be indicative of any skill level at all cause bnet noobs don't know how to play SC. This was played on bnet am I correct? I don't see the game on iccup.

my bad it was a typo, I have dyslexia

DYSLEXICS UNTIE!!!


Edit: I didn't see your edit, yup it was on b-net. i'd play iccup but i get technical problems, i thought this guy was bad so you probably right i am a noob =(.

Wait a minute, I saw a player quit, but I didn't see any one win. Both of you were dead even. The only advantage you had was your expansion.

How can I rate an incomplete game? to say which of you is better I'd need at least 5 more minutes of gameplay. And maybe see someone actually hurt the other so as to see a defined advantage.

Quote by Uberman

Wait a minute, I saw a player quit, but I didn't see any one win. Both of you were dead even. The only advantage you had was your expansion.

How can I rate an incomplete game, to say which of you is better I'd need at least 5 more minutes of gameplay. And maybe see someone actually hurt the other so as to see a defined advantage.

you really thought it was incomplete? i had 4 gates an expo and higher tech. if the game lasted 5 more seconds i woulda made a 5th gate and maybe a 6th gate. he had only 2 operational factories, a flying barrack.

if the game went on here's what i predict: i woulda kept him bottled up in his base keeping some pressure. if he doesn't die from the pressure, he would try a drop that i quickly repel. by the time he pulls that off i would be making an arbitor and upgrading recall. when the arbitor is ready i would recall a large army on his tank (that would be near his mineral line and go for a full push. and that would be game. but can't say for sure.

Quote by Outlaw_Star

you really thought it was incomplete? i had 4 gates an expo and higher tech. if the game lasted 5 more seconds i woulda made a 5th gate and maybe a 6th gate. he had only 2 operational factories, a flying barrack.

Yet you still were equal in miners. all I'm saying is that it could have gone either way (I give the other guy 63% chance of lossing).

I really hate it when people quit before the game is done. By quiting you lose the last five minutes of frantic scrambling, trying for all your worth to win. That's my favorite time of the game, trying to think up a strategy that will give you an advantage (and sometimes it actually happens). because how can you know for sure how a game will end if you don't play it?

Quote by Uberman

Yet you still were equal in miners. all I'm saying is that it could have gone either way (I give the other guy 63% chance of lossing).

I really hate it when people quit before the game is done. By quiting you lose the last five minutes of frantic scrambling, trying for all your worth to win. That's my favorite time of the game, trying to think up a strategy that will give you an advantage (and some times I actually do). because how can you know for sure how a game will end if you don't play it?

he had more miners but i had more supply. I'm pretty sure that he over maxed out the miner per minerals so he was wasteful. I killed a few workers when he attacked. if i microed better and use the attack hot key and aimed for workers it might have been more decisive.

i agree that he left too early though. i personally play till i die and do as much damage as posible when i know i'm going to lose. it's more fun that way ^_^

if i gave him a percentage it would be 20-25% of victory. mostly b/c i could out macro him easily.

@ Uberman

The game was over. The Terran player lost too many tanks to make any reasonable comeback in the game.

As for the game itself, I felt that there was a good amount of sloppiness on both sides. The Terran player wasn't horrible, but he should have walled off his choke instead of trying to build around his CC (did you choose random or something?). The main problem I had with your play was that you threw away a few too many Dragoons to tanks for my tastes. I understand if you get hit up with Spider Mines, but fighting 3 Tanks that have high terrain advantage with 3 Dragoons is a bad idea (I'm guessing you sent those as reinforcements then forgot about them as they were massacred). What won you the game was that that Terran did not do a good job laying down Spider Mines and he built his turret a tad late (thought this was somewhat due to your push against the Siege Tanks so good job with that).

Quote by Shadowmage

As for the game itself, I felt that there was a good amount of sloppiness on both sides. The Terran player wasn't horrible, but he should have walled off his choke instead of trying to build around his CC (did you choose random or something?). The main problem I had with your play was that you threw away a few too many Dragoons to tanks for my tastes. I understand if you get hit up with Spider Mines, but fighting 3 Tanks that have high terrain advantage with 3 Dragoons is a bad idea (I'm guessing you sent those as reinforcements then forgot about them as they were massacred). What won you the game was that that Terran did not do a good job laying down Spider Mines and he built his turret a tad late (thought this was somewhat due to your push against the Siege Tanks so good job with that).

I think we both chose random, but toss is my main race. as for the goons, i micro-ed them kinda badly and i didn't notice till just now (looking again) that they got attacked before reaching his base. the spider mines, i'm pretty careful with, my solution to them (before obs) is sending a suicide zealot before the rest of my guys. i did it once with a dragoon in this game i think.

TY for Posting ^_^

I looked at your replay, and here is my review.

1) You stopped making probes, as protoss you should never stop making probes. You should have 2.5 probes per mineral patch, that means you should have around 44 from 2 bases. (and you should keep making because you would eventually take a 3rd base)

2) When you expanded, you made like 5 probes in your nat and stopped, and didn't send any from your main base to your natural expansion base. When you expand you take 1/3 of your probes in your main base, and send them to your natural expansion.

3) Learn Build Orders, I saw you going 2 gate zealots (and then making random stuff), and you just made 3 zealots and stopped doing anything else until you remembered to tech. With 2 gate zealots you are supposed to put pressure in your enemy because it is an aggressive build.

4) Don't suicide more units when you see your enemy got enough units in his main to hold you off.

5) There were times where you forgot to build anything from your gates. Here is a TIP:

[tip]Everytime I'm in a fight, that means i need to make units, I forget about everything in the fight, and I go back to my base to make units, and then go back to the fight.[/tip] (but you should worry about macro right now) (read number 6)

When terran got his tanks outside your base, you sent your units, and yes, you killed his units, but you didn't build more units!, you ended up with 1 dragoon, and nothing else because you didn't keep making units.

6) Right now, at your level, you shouldn't worry about micro, what you should worry about is macro. It doesn't work to micro a dragoon like a pro if you don't have enough money or enough units to back him up. Just macroing can win you a lot of games, in your level, you should forget about micro, just macro well enough send your units to fight, (worrying just about macro) and continue macroing (if you did this against your oponent this game, you would have just crushed him).

Of course, at higher level you have to learn to micro and macro and a lot more things, but you should worry to learn good macro, and then worry about micro, and other things like timings etc, (but those come later)

7) check this page and learn everything from there.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Protoss_Strategy

Don't forget about the probes!! (you could have won this game easier if you just made more probes)

9)You should try to stick with a race, you said protoss is your main, then stick with it.

Tip: When you play against terran, you don't want to build your buildings that close to the cliff because you put them in a perfect spot for terran to destroy them with sieged tanks.

And finally don't worry about APM, it will come alone if you practice everything else.

I might have forgoten about something, but I will check it out tomorrow.

Quote by huezo89

I looked at your replay, and here is my review.

1) You stopped making probes, as protoss you should never stop making probes. You should have 2.5 probes per mineral patch, that means you should have around 44 from 2 bases. (and you should keep making because you would eventually take a 3rd base)

2) When you expanded, you made like 5 probes in your nat and stopped, and didn't send any from your main base to your natural expansion base. When you expand you take 1/3 of your probes in your main base, and send them to your natural expansion.

3) Learn Build Orders, I saw you going 2 gate zealots (and then making random stuff), and you just made 3 zealots and stopped doing anything else until you remembered to tech. With 2 gate zealots you are supposed to put pressure in your enemy because it is an aggressive build.

4) Don't suicide more units when you see your enemy got enough units in his main to hold you off.

5) There were times where you forgot to build anything from your gates. Here is a TIP:

[tip]Everytime I'm in a fight, that means i need to make units, I forget about everything in the fight, and I go back to my base to make units, and then go back to the fight.[/tip] (but you should worry about macro right now) (read number 6)

When terran got his tanks outside your base, you sent your units, and yes, you killed his units, but you didn't build more units!, you ended up with 1 dragoon, and nothing else because you didn't keep making units.

6) Right now, at your level, you shouldn't worry about micro, what you should worry about is macro. It doesn't work to micro a dragoon like a pro if you don't have enough money or enough units to back him up. Just macroing can win you a lot of games, in your level, you should forget about micro, just macro well enough send your units to fight, (worrying just about macro) and continue macroing (if you did this against your oponent this game, you would have just crushed him).

Of course, at higher level you have to learn to micro and macro and a lot more things, but you should worry to learn good macro, and then worry about micro, and other things like timings etc, (but those come later)

7) check this page and learn everything from there.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Protoss_Strategy

Don't forget about the probes!! (you could have won this game easier if you just made more probes)

9)You should try to stick with a race, you said protoss is your main, then stick with it.

Tip: When you play against terran, you don't want to build your buildings that close to the cliff because you put them in a perfect spot for terran to destroy them with sieged tanks.

And finally don't worry about APM, it will come alone if you practice everything else.

I might have forgoten about something, but I will check it out tomorrow.

Thanks ^_^ i love the critique.
the probes, i just started noticing that it's a bad habit of mine to stop making probes i lost a 2v2 match last night b/c of it. but in the replay i had 40 probes (according to the charts) so i don't think i did too bad.
my build order is a bit random. I do a 2 gate out of habit to fend off zerg rushes, to quickly get zealots at my choke. I wanted to do a dragoon tech, but I messed up on it (probably the 2 gate). then i just went for dts just b/c i hate them when i'm terran. some times I just build units randomly b/c i need units but don't have enough gas or minerals.

thanks for all the advice, but when it comes to terran and there tanks I don't think that macro-ing is the best idea b/c it's in a way suicide with there long range I feel that the micro was worth the lose of macro. I'll try to hot key my buildings so i can build while watching my attack units, it's probably better if i practice that stuff in 1v1s than the 2v2s that i normally do.

I'll keep the cliff thing in mind ^_^ Thanks again

Just an addition to Huezo's reply:
Your apm will increase when you start doing stuff by reflex(i.e learn a build order for pvt a build order for pvz and one for pvp and stick with those, when you can execute those build orders you can start learning new build orders)..
One thing to remember is that you don't sit and think about things.. If you see your opponent go 14 cc you should respond instantly and you could start warping in another gate and get goon range or you could build a shuttle to drop some zealots on his siege tanks.. Basically just know how to respond and learn a build order and your apm will increase significantly.

EDIT: The 14cc was just an example, not saying your opponent did it in the replay

Quote by Outlaw_Star

Thanks ^_^ i love the critique.
the probes, i just started noticing that it's a bad habit of mine to stop making probes i lost a 2v2 match last night b/c of it. but in the replay i had 40 probes (according to the charts) so i don't think i did too bad.

I checked before posting of course , and you had 27 probes, maybe you confused them with the 39 scv's that your opponent had because you said you use terran sometimes right? or maybe the chart switched them?

EDIT: It was repdepot chart mistake, don't use the repdepot chart, it sucks, I recommend you this one http://bwchart.teamliquid.net/

Quote by Outlaw_Star

my build order is a bit random. I do a 2 gate out of habit to fend off zerg rushes, to quickly get zealots at my choke. I wanted to do a dragoon tech, but I messed up on it (probably the 2 gate). then i just went for dts just b/c i hate them when i'm terran. some times I just build units randomly b/c i need units but don't have enough gas or minerals.

Well, if zerg does a ling rush and you did a 2 gate build, you lost because when are building your first zealot his zerglings are already in your base, I recommend you to look for a Fast Expand build.

It is a bad idea to make PvZ builds in a PvT, you should try to learn BOs for every match up, that will help a lot, believe me

Quote by Outlaw_Star

thanks for all the advice, but when it comes to terran and there tanks I don't think that macro-ing is the best idea b/c it's in a way suicide with there long range I feel that the micro was worth the lose of macro. I'll try to hot key my buildings so i can build while watching my attack units, it's probably better if i practice that stuff in 1v1s than the 2v2s that i normally do.

I'll keep the cliff thing in mind ^_^ Thanks again

You're welcome

I think you didn't understand me that part so let me restate it.

I didn't mean macro for this particular game, I meant for every game, I'm not saying "you should macro this part and this part to win this game", I'm saying you should play games, and in those game just macro macro macro, and that will help you a lot.

In other words, I told you to just macro as a way of practice and by consequence, to get better.

Don't see the macro part as a way of win this and that game, I think you wanted to get better right?, See this macro as a practice to get better, that is what I meant, don't worry too much if you will win or will lose, worry to get good macro, and when you have good macro then start practicing everything else.

You said you though it was ok to micro those goons and forget about building anything else, If you were against me, that micro would have been gg because I would have kept building units while fighting (terran didn't do it).

Everything I said was for practice porpuses, not to win some games, but of course, if you practice just macro (right now), you will win more games as a consequence of that, so you are in a situation of win/win.

EDIT:I'm telling you all this with 1v1 in my head so yeah, you should forget about 2v2.

Quote by huezo89

Quote by Outlaw_Star

my build order is a bit random. I do a 2 gate out of habit to fend off zerg rushes, to quickly get zealots at my choke. I wanted to do a dragoon tech, but I messed up on it (probably the 2 gate). then i just went for dts just b/c i hate them when i'm terran. some times I just build units randomly b/c i need units but don't have enough gas or minerals.

Well, if zerg does a ling rush and you did a 2 gate build, you lost because when are building your first zealot his zerglings are already in your base, I recommend you to look for a Fast Expand build.

It is a bad idea to make PvZ builds in a PvT, you should try to learn BOs for every match up, that will help a lot, believe me

i use it to block a 9 pool, it acctually gets my 2nd and 3rd zealots out pretty fast (use my scouting probe to block the ramp until 3rd zealot if i see a spawning pool. before the 2nd & 3rd (they are made @ same time) zealot is done i get gas cyber core 4th zealot, stargate 2 goons and cosair.

Quote by huezo89

You're welcome

I think you didn't understand me that part so let me restate it.

I didn't mean macro for this particular game, I meant for every game, I'm not saying "you should macro this part and this part to win this game", I'm saying you should play games, and in those game just macro macro macro, and that will help you a lot.

In other words, I told you to just macro as a way of practice and by consequence, to get better.

Don't see the macro part as a way of win this and that game, I think you wanted to get better right?, See this macro as a practice to get better, that is what I meant, don't worry too much if you will win or will lose, worry to get good macro, and when you have good macro then start practicing everything else.

You said you though it was ok to micro those goons and forget about building anything else, If you were against me, that micro would have been gg because I would have kept building units while fighting (terran didn't do it).

Everything I said was for practice porpuses, not to win some games, but of course, if you practice just macro (right now), you will win more games as a consequence of that, so you are in a situation of win/win.

EDIT:I'm telling you all this with 1v1 in my head so yeah, you should forget about 2v2.

i under stood it's just that if i could choose one or the other (macro or micro) at the times i did, i would do the same thing again. i'm not say it should have let my let my macro to fall for the sake of micro. I just just explaining for this game b/c it's the one i posted, i know what you mean though

Quote by Outlaw_Star

my build order is a bit random. I do a 2 gate out of habit to fend off zerg rushes, to quickly get zealots at my choke. I wanted to do a dragoon tech, but I messed up on it (probably the 2 gate). then i just went for dts just b/c i hate them when i'm terran. some times I just build units randomly b/c i need units but don't have enough gas or minerals.

nononononononononononono
Please, learn a BO. If you want to learn SC:
1) Learn a BO for one MU (I recommend PvT, 1gatecore) [url=www.liquidpedia.net]Liquipedia[/url] is your friend here.
2) Practice is alone so you get it becomes 2nd nature (thinking is no longer required to know what to build and when).
3) Mass game PvT and use that BO, you'll probably lose a lot of your initial games, but really, as a noob, who didn't lose games? The best thing is not to get discouraged but rather rewatch your games and find out why you lost.
4) When mass gaming always remember, macro is king. No matter how good the build, it cannot be effective if you cannot make enough units, so remember to MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO MACRO HAAAARD.
6) It doesn't even matter if you don't make the right units, just macro like a motherfucking beast. Also, zeals>tanks>goons>vults. And all of the advice Huezo gave is valid. I'm not going to bother going into any more detail/watching your game since Huezo has already done so =)
7) Only move onto different MUs when you feel that the MU you were practicing is at a decent level. It's much easier to learn MUs one at a time, rather than all 3 at once.

Quote by Outlaw_Star

I do a 2 gate out of habit to fend off zerg rushes, to quickly get zealots at my choke.

No, lol, 2 gate is not the counter for 5-9pool. A well positioned forge FE is and pull some probes if they do 4/5 pool. Plus 2gate is offensive in nature and if you just turtle with it early on, you'll be at a significant disadvantage.

And remember, you could learn much more if you joined the tourny =)