Starcraft 2 Armory

Changes for HotS I think don't suck to be made ATM.. :)

17 posts ⋅ 1,077 views

Void Ray
3,524 posts
Let me simplify those a little bit for you and put them in a list without commenting much..

Old notes:


What you guys think of the changes ?? - post your opinion on those
Archon
1,404 posts
A bit confuse here, are these official changes or your suggestions you wish to discuss?

If they are official changes, a link to the source would be nice.
"There is no shame in defeat so long as the spirit is unconquered"
Praetor Fenix

"The two most common element's in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity."
Mohandar

Stalker
357 posts
I'd just like to point out that an AoE radius of 1.4 is about the size of a spawning pool/rax/gateway/cybercore/most buildings (3x3 Buildings have a radius of 1.5) I think a 0.4-0.6 radius would be good - Enough to hit a small cluster of marines.

Your "original" health/shields for oracle seem to be wrong. They have 80 health and 20 shields afaik.
And yea, I also thought about a stasis on oracles. I think that would probably be the best choice for an ability that anyone has yet mentioned for them.

Giving locusts 3 armor only makes them more effective against zerglings, zealots and marines (High attack speed units with relatively low damage per hit). Yes, armor matters against all units, but those three are the most affected by all, and they already are useless against locusts.
I think locusts need a damage nerf (12 at the most, and evne that is high (same damage as hydras)) and lowered attack speed (to about 1. Right now they attack faster than hydras)
Wouldn't mind buffing health in return.

Void Ray
3,524 posts
Sep 9th 2012, 01:55:27 Quote by spartan198
A bit confuse here, are these official changes or your suggestions you wish to discuss?

If they are official changes, a link to the source would be nice.


Haha I made those, but I guess I wasted a quite a bit of time to make them really listed well..

Sep 9th 2012, 02:04:18 Quote by The Doctor
I'd just like to point out that an AoE radius of 1.4 is about the size of a spawning pool/rax/gateway/cybercore/most buildings (3x3 Buildings have a radius of 1.5) I think a 0.4-0.6 radius would be good - Enough to hit a small cluster of marines.


@TheDoctor - wait - how much is the radius of the Archon splash damage ?? (thought it was 1 flat, so 1.4 times that is 1.4 lol), IDK about the Oracle though - if so - the point is - 40SP to be rechargeable instead of 20, and I believe it's more like 20/60 not 20/80 as I don't think Oracle has 100 HP/SP in total..

Sep 9th 2012, 02:04:18 Quote by The Doctor
Giving locusts 3 armor only makes them more effective against zerglings, zealots and marines (High attack speed units with relatively low damage per hit). Yes, armor matters against all units, but those three are the most affected by all, and they already are useless against locusts.


YES - THAT was the exact main purpose - force you have non-T1 units where Hosts would be.. Locusts with Larva-Like armor and low damage on units but higher on buildings would do them the perfect batery-ramp-like units that you'd like to backdoor with..

Sep 9th 2012, 02:04:18 Quote by The Doctor
I think locusts need a damage nerf (12 at the most, and evne that is high (same damage as hydras)) and lowered attack speed (to about 1. Right now they attack faster than hydras)
Wouldn't mind buffing health in return.


Agreed, but not vs Buildings (8 base + 8 vs buildings as posted) - should remain with the relatively higher DPS vs buildings to bust down front doors at guarded bases IMO

Here's a small description for why I posted all those changes on the locusts though:



Basically I listed those cause right now I think Protoss have a LOT more problems with Locusts than Terran - so thought if Locusts were more resistive to splash but do less damage would be equally the same in damaging ratios (percentages say how you like) to both Terran and Protoss and be less to Protoss and more to Terran (about the same damage percentage-wise suffered per wave overall) IMO..

That was the idea of the Locust changes, but those aren't of the highest priority ATM though.. PvT/TvP/TvT basically Protoss and Terran state/changes is..
Archon
1,404 posts
Changes for HotS that I think would not suck? Hmm

"There is no shame in defeat so long as the spirit is unconquered"
Praetor Fenix

"The two most common element's in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity."
Mohandar

Ghost
487 posts
Sep 9th 2012, 00:12:22 Quote by VArsovskiSC
Terran

Warhound:

    I think thats drastic adding all those changes. the warhound isnt that OP that it needs all those changes. infact i dont think the warhound is OP at all. people just need to learn how to counter them with the right composition....
    Archon
    1,404 posts
    Sep 10th 2012, 11:06:24 Quote by Hyperion
    Sep 9th 2012, 00:12:22 Quote by VArsovskiSC
    Terran

    Warhound:

      I think thats drastic adding all those changes. the warhound isnt that OP that it needs all those changes. infact i dont think the warhound is OP at all. people just need to learn how to counter them with the right composition....


      (Invalid video video code)
      "There is no shame in defeat so long as the spirit is unconquered"
      Praetor Fenix

      "The two most common element's in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity."
      Mohandar

      Void Ray
      3,524 posts
      LOL @Spartan - I was searching for that video some time ago actually..

      @Hyperion:

      I know that Warhounds are OP as sh*t and basically everyone does (that demostration was even more persuasive that I thought it surpased my expectations by quite a lot, lol.. ), but didn't make those drastically cause they still can show a sign of struggle sometimes in TvZ and cause I know that Terran can't afford a late-game switch back to bio after Zerg gets Vipers and Blind - that's probably the only reason why I still think that they still might need stay on 2 supply cost.. Hell - I even had a special thread of what do you think of Warhounds and their usage in TvZ before I posted these..

      Here's another interesting info as well - when Nerchio streamed the first few days with playing Random - if he got a TvT (if his opponent was Terran or Random that appeared to be Terran) he would just go blindly Sky-Terran directly to Banshees cause basically there was the 100% chance that the opponent would either push with early on, or mass nothing else but Warhounds and "aplauded" to those who wouldn't fall to his early Banshee trap..

      Yeah - I know that 4 changes might sound a little too much, but the 4th change doesn't even change the unit itself, and is probably the NO1 change Blizzard will most likely be looking forward to cause it's the slightest of slightest changes that possibly can exist for a unit for a patch (or just a suggestion for one, lol), and as for that 2-nd change I posted for the Warhound --> I seriously doubt that DKim's intention was for Haywires to hit SCV/Probe/Hellion/Sentry, as still think that his intention was purely intending them vs Heavy-Armored-Mech (TvT) and Stalker/Robo (TvP)

      So basically it's the remaining 2 (first - i.e. - minus 25HP and third - i.e. - movement speed down to 2.50) you should focus on whether they seem/sound reasonable or not..

      And right now - to me they honestly DO - even TvT is a warhound fest from the both sides and it's really ridiculous - even at chokes Tanks still can't hold their ground and Thorzain and Cloud lost TvTs on their stream cause of trying to mix in some other stuff a bit (mainly Marauders or Marines from Thorzain or Siege-Tanks from Cloud), and THAT my friend is the NO1 indicator when a unit breaks it's own mirror-matchup - then it is 100% broken..

      And yes - now when we're talking about OP stuff - I might add another few changes for the Zerg (the Viper-bad-boy actually) to look less painful/annoying to deal with for the poor Protoss and fellow Terrans..
      Super Moderator ⋅ Battlecruiser
      6,273 posts
      @spartan198 - I would take the video seriously if it wasn't a bronze league player massing one unit against the Warhounds.
      Observer
      926 posts
      Sep 12th 2012, 07:01:17 Quote by stebo88
      @spartan198 - I would take the video seriously if it wasn't a bronze league player massing one unit against the Warhounds.

      Are you sure you watch that video?
      The first few battle is about archon + colossi, and yet, warhound win easily.
      DRG - Everytime people crazing about when protoss did good FF .good storm . good blink . make mothership ...Why theres nothing like those in zerg
      Stalker
      357 posts
      Just thought I'd put this here:
      We have heard your concerns. We are on it the case. Our next patch will have lots of changes for Protoss. David is preparing a situation report for you guys that explains all the details. See what you think when he gets it out. Hopefully you will be playing with changes soon and we can see how it goes.

      Posted by Rock. Which design team member was he again? Browder?
      http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6572267201

      Super Moderator ⋅ Battlecruiser
      6,273 posts
      Sep 12th 2012, 21:02:51 Quote by XxXxX
      Sep 12th 2012, 07:01:17 Quote by stebo88
      @spartan198 - I would take the video seriously if it wasn't a bronze league player massing one unit against the Warhounds.

      Are you sure you watch that video?
      The first few battle is about archon + colossi, and yet, warhound win easily.

      I'm sorry I didn't realize you are playing monobattles or the "Fastest Map Possible". You will never see that many Archons and Colossus together against that many Warhounds in a real match up. The rest of the video is just him massing one unit repeatedly for 8 minutes + The composition of Ling/Baneling/Roach/Hydra/Ultra which would never happen either.
      Void Ray
      3,524 posts
      Sep 13th 2012, 10:26:42 Quote by The Doctor
      Posted by Rock. Which design team member was he again? Browder?
      Do you really need to ask if his name is Rock and his avatar literally is the Collapsable Rocks falling down.. ?

      Sep 13th 2012, 10:26:42 Quote by The Doctor
      Good find and good news..

      Nice to hear that there will be the changes for Protoss.. Really looking forward to the situation report.. (Hope Mothership core gets a more reasonable speed though..)
      Auto-Turret
      2,236 posts
      Sep 12th 2012, 21:02:51 Quote by XxXxX
      Sep 12th 2012, 07:01:17 Quote by stebo88
      @spartan198 - I would take the video seriously if it wasn't a bronze league player massing one unit against the Warhounds.

      Are you sure you watch that video?
      The first few battle is about archon + colossi, and yet, warhound win easily.


      All it is is a series of A-move 200/200 vs 200/200 army battles. There are several flaws with this. The first is that no terran will ever max out on only warhound because a single void ray would be able to defeat his entire army. Another is that in battles such as that, with exception being given to specific abilities (hardened shield) in a battle with 200/200 armies, the army with the greater range will almost always win, as proven by the tanks beating the warhounds despite the fact that the warhounds usually are, in fact, cost effective against tanks in small numbers. I could go on.
      Observer
      926 posts
      Sep 13th 2012, 11:40:53 Quote by Spartan929
      Sep 12th 2012, 21:02:51 Quote by XxXxX
      Sep 12th 2012, 07:01:17 Quote by stebo88
      @spartan198 - I would take the video seriously if it wasn't a bronze league player massing one unit against the Warhounds.

      Are you sure you watch that video?
      The first few battle is about archon + colossi, and yet, warhound win easily.


      All it is is a series of A-move 200/200 vs 200/200 army battles. There are several flaws with this. The first is that no terran will ever max out on only warhound because a single void ray would be able to defeat his entire army. Another is that in battles such as that, with exception being given to specific abilities (hardened shield) in a battle with 200/200 armies, the army with the greater range will almost always win, as proven by the tanks beating the warhounds despite the fact that the warhounds usually are, in fact, cost effective against tanks in small numbers. I could go on.

      Just look at the first battle (the rest are jokes, I agree).
      Colossi, Immortal + archon, that's the strongest ground army composition for toss.
      And yet, it still loses to mass warhound. Warhound can't shoot up? Yea, so as maurdeur. But no one in the right mind will go VR, because marine is so cheap and can be produced so rapidly. Marine + warhound = GG SG play.

      Speaking of micro:
      Sure, it's all a+move....but what else can the protoss player do?
      warhound is so fast (I heard it has the same speed as Archon), toss can't kite them.....
      What else can you expect? positioning? They have already done it in the video (for toss at least).

      @spartan198 - I would take the video seriously if it wasn't a bronze league player massing one unit against the Warhounds.
      Are you sure you watch that video?
      The first few battle is about archon + colossi, and yet, warhound win easily.
      I'm sorry I didn't realize you are playing monobattles or the "Fastest Map Possible". You will never see that many Archons and Colossus together against that many Warhounds in a real match up. The rest of the video is just him massing one unit repeatedly for 8 minutes + The composition of Ling/Baneling/Roach/Hydra/Ultra which would never happen either.
      True, coz...warhound can be made earlier and faster than colossi and archon
      Doesn't this sound wrong already?
      A tier 1.5/2 units can beat all ground toss unit......
      Seriously, even Blizz admit it that warhound is too strong against toss......why are you guys denying.
      DRG - Everytime people crazing about when protoss did good FF .good storm . good blink . make mothership ...Why theres nothing like those in zerg